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| The best at mixing things up |
12 x 12 stalls.
What.
Why.
Does not compute.
I mean, I get them in the case of medical emergencies sort of depending on what is going on. Beyond that? No. A horse is a huge animal. I live in a tiny house and I think my bedroom is about 12x12.
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| It's a stall, but he has a run too. |
Can someone explain the logic here? Or where they came from? Or anything? This whole thing just draws a blank for me.
My horses live out 24/7 and while I have no problems with keeping them in stalls (with proper management!) there is no way I would keep my girls, even my pony in 12x12 stalls, unless there was a good sized run attached.
ReplyDeleteBasically, I'm saying that I'm with you.... don't understand it either.
Yeah I'm with you here... horses aren't meant to live in boxes. Which is why SuperPony lives out in his Pony Palace with a giant 12x24 run-in and a nice paddock to roam around in when he isn't out in the big field chillin' with his homies. Horses need to be outside. Moving. All the time. When I get my own farm, my ideal set up would be big stalls that open into a dry lot, which then opens into a pasture. So the ponies always have the option of coming in if they want to/I have stalls in case of injury or horrible weather, but most of the time they can be OUT!
ReplyDeleteI have a lot of opinions on this subject, but I might just write it into a blog post since it's 100% Simon-centric.
ReplyDeletePlease do. I would love a good Simon-centric post on this subject.
DeleteBecause 12x12 fits. Wish I had a pic but my 17h TB rests his head on one wall and his butt on the other - he fits perfectly in a 12' stall and takes his afternoon nap in it whenever he can. Of course he also just has to step outside of it and he has 15 acres to stretch his legs! But seriously, I bet its some "English" thing. I grew up English riding and the more I move away from the strict traditional English-thing, the more I find it remains the foundation of everything else I do. Yup. I say lets blame the English.
ReplyDeleteA standard size horse has plenty of room to move around in a 12x12 stall. Is bigger better? Of course. Are attached runs fabulous? Yes! But that option is completely non-existant in my area unless I want to spend half a million or more to buy my own place. Basically in my area we have straight field care (which works for lots of people, but not all horses thrive living out) or 12 in/12 out in a 12 x 12 stall.
ReplyDeleteI believe it has to do with being able to fit an even number of stalls into the dimensions that large buildings such as barns are generally built into. That said, we learned in college that a rectangular animal like a horse lives best in a rectangular stall, so we had 16 x 12 stalls, and they DID generally hang out facing either short side, with their body parallel to the long sides.
ReplyDeleteConvenience and space management. That's what stalls are all about. If you're willing to forego the convenience, and you have the money/space, get rid of the stalls. Your horse's mind will thank you.
ReplyDeleteThat said, my TB does love his stall. I think his 6 years on the track conditioned him to be comfortable coming off a trailer and sliding right into a stall. He settles in immediately, calms down, and actually seek out a stall and stand in one. That said, he's much better mentally and physically being kept out on acreage 24/7.
Being flight animals I wonder if a stall would provide them with a sense of security, like a dog who feels safe in their crate? I think keeping a horse in 12x12, 24/7 except in the case where it's medically necessary is not the ideal situation. I liken it to keeping your dog in a crate 24/7, it's just not fair. Or like keeping a human in a cubicle all day...hmmm...I'm going to go take myself for a walk now :P
ReplyDeleteIt has to do with the dimensions of lumber, and the most economical way to use the lumber. Boards come in 12 ft lengths. Hence a 12 ft stall. Lumber does come in 20 ft, but then to be economical you would have 10 ft stalls. 12 X 12 is really adequate for most horses except foaling stalls. and perhaps it discourages being cast?
ReplyDeleteFiction loves to be outside, but during the winter he is very happy to take long naps in his stall. He always seems more rested after getting sleep in his stall than after sleeping outside. I guess he feels some sort of comfort/security there.
ReplyDeleteWhere I am in SoCal, stalls or paddocks (Hemie is in a 12x24) are necessary because land values are so high. Land/space is at a premium. I've even seen a barn with 8x8 stalls!
ReplyDeleteAround here it's about money and space. Land is extremely expensive and very few people have it. Most people have to board, and the boarding barns don't have room for every horse to have a run. Turnout is extremely limited, also because of space and money. Then, because this is all horses owners here have ever known, it becomes dogma. The horses go nuts when they're turned out, because they're cooped up all day and usually all winter, then they injure themselves in turnout and the dogma is re-inforced. It's also re-inforced when the horses are turned out alone and become stressed, the owners then believe the horse "doesn't like" turnout and insist it never go out again. Now, I'm not saying everyone around here is like that, but it is a very commonly held opinion here that horses don't like turnout and that turnout makes them too tired, perform poorly and leads to injury. (This is not my opinion, just one I've heard a lot)
ReplyDelete^ What Shannon said. I hear these things a lot too in my neck of the woods.
DeleteHa, good question. I think mainly it is for them to have room to get up and down without being cast. Plus if your putting in mats 12x12 is easier to fit. We have cut many mats to fit our various size stalls over the years. Show stalls tend to be 10x10 so I guess they can do with smaller too. I used to joke that Barry had a bigger stall (10x11) than I had a room (9x9).
ReplyDeleteFor me it was cost. 5 12 x12 stall barn cost mid five figures. Wish and want all day but you'd better have the money for all that. I would have likes run outs in hind sight but again another expense. Unless you have bottomless pockets you do what you can. Fortunately mine get alot of turn out time and seem perfectly happy. They are also lucky to get a 12x12 at a show. Most are 10x10:(
ReplyDeleteUgh- dealing with this now. Sunday full care turnout is going away and I'm going to rally the troops to do a co-op schedule. Because there's no way I'm going to let my girl sit in her stall all day long.
ReplyDeleteUgh- agree- here in CA space is at a premium. I would love nothing more than to have my horse turned out for 8 hours a day!
ReplyDeleteYes! Especially in our lovely green pastures...oh wait...haha! Those don't exist here either :P
DeleteMy guy was stalled (half the day) before I got him. Loved his stall and laid down for naps daily so I'm told. I agree with the security theory on that one.
ReplyDeleteThe setup here is 24/7 turnout with access to a run-in shelter. He now lays out flat in the open for a snooze (at least once) daily, so apparently the farm's safe enough, but also takes advantage of the shelter in bad weather.
I think having a choice of where to be - run-in shelter or free access to a stall from some sort of turnout is ideal...maybe the stall size is not critical in that situation.
I am fairly certain stalls (regardless of size) became a norm when horses were used to pull carts, wagons, and other farm equipment daily. Given that they would be out working all day, and tired from their work, horses didn't really need to be out all night as well. If they were in a stall they were that much easier to hitch back up in the morning for another day's work. Non-working animals probably just lived out on pasture. Then, in modern times when cars and machinery replaced good old horsepower and land became a premium in urban environments, stalls became the norm due to lack of land, as people have mentioned previously. I feel very fortunate that we were able to purchase enough land that my horse(s) will not have to live in stalls ever again aside from a few horse shows a year.
ReplyDeleteThere is some history to stalls - when royalty started to take an increasing interest in making big huge fortified castles, they started to keep their fancy horses inside the castle walls to protect them. Of course, the common people decided THEY wanted to keep their horses in stalls like the royalty did, so they started doing it too!
DeleteWhen I lived up north, 12x12 was a HUGE stall. Most stalls were 10x10. Some were 8x10, or 8x8.
ReplyDeleteWe had 14x14 stalls at one place I was at, and that was a huge luxury. Every stall had a window too - also a huge luxury. Most cold, cold places up north have no windows and tiny, tiny stalls, especially very, very old barns like turn of the century bank barns. No runs on ANY of the stalls, because it was just too cold.
Down here in Texas, most every stall has a run, or at least a window.
I have to disagree with the comments that horses feel safe/secure in their small stalls. As a prey animal, horses are programmed to avoid small spaces as it makes them feel trapped (no where to run if a predator shows up). Hence all the problems and trouble we have getting them to load into horse trailers. I think that horses can be trained/conditioned to feel safe in their stall (just like we can train/condition them to confidently and comfortably load into a trailer) but that is training, not the horses natural instinct.
ReplyDeleteOtherwise I agree that it's probably a cost/land/space thing.
You beat me to it anon!
DeleteMy mare would freak in a box stall, poop inside?! Horror, gasp! No really... I get cold climate, health, inner city lack of spacing, bit I think unless your horse can get turned out every day, its pretty cramped living. I wouldn't want to live on my bathroom.
ReplyDeleteI am incredibly lucky to have found a place where my guy can live in a paddock with a nice shelter (20X14 or something like that). The paddock opens up to the grove, and my BO opens his gate and lets him have the run of the whole grove every evening. Here, space is at a premium and it's hard to find a set-up like that! But my boy weaves when in a stall, so he needs to be out 24/7 if possible. I don't think we'll be moving any time soon!
ReplyDeleteMost have said it but it's for easiest building dimensions. My stalls are all 12x14 and two that are 12 x 16. Typically they are harder to clean because the horse moves around more. Some horses actually prefer smaller spaces, and they most definitely love a low celing.
ReplyDelete