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Lunging.
I've lunged Courage twice in the past week. Once was before our lesson because I thought he might be wild (he was) and the other time before my ride Monday because I thought he might be wild (he wasn't).
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That said. There's this whole other world out there that I know nothing about, wherein horses get lunged as a training exercise that theoretically serves to progress their knowledge. Obviously, I used it to great effect over fences. Do you lunge? What do you accomplish? What makes you decide to do it or not? Do you use gadgets or a round pen or just a line?
I tend to agree that longeing usually does nothing more than make a crazy horse fitter and wear down on joints. I was taught to never longe on a circle for more than 20 minutes. However, I do think it can be useful for ground work when done properly...like not just sticking your horse on a line and letting it do its own thing for an hour.
ReplyDeleteI used to longe, a lot, but have never done it to work a horse down. For Cash, longeing in elastic side reins was a way for him to learn that a light contact wasn't a bad thing, without worrying about my not-so-steady hands. He also learned how to do lengthen trot on a longe line, to go over poles without cantering them, and how to do a better free walk. All those things he could do without me interfering, without my body/weight/hands messing him up. I have also used it with other horses to work on transitions, especially t/c/t txs. They can figure out how to do it on their own, how to balance themselves and become stronger, without having to also deal with a rider.
ReplyDeleteI would love to longe Paddy more, especially to work on his balance in the canter. I think it would help him a lot, but he's never been taught to longe and I don't have a round pen. He's so strong that he has literally pulled me across the pasture longeing, and he doesn't need to learn that trick! So unless we have a round pen to work in, longeing is not an option for us right now. I really wish it was, though.
And when I say "a lot," I mean for 10-15 minutes, twice a week. As opposed to how often I longe now, which is "almost never", lol!
DeleteThere is nothing wrong with lunging if it has a purpose and that purpose depends on the horse. I don't lunge poppy. She doesn't need it and she hates it so there is no purpose. I started lunging Luxxx as we were breaking him. He needed to learn commands, respect, and what it felt like to have tack on him. I still lunge him but I try to keep it short. He likes to play and buck and this lets him get it out. He is 3. As long as its good for his mind, not stressing him out I see nothing wrong with it. Eventually he won't need it and he will let me know when that time is. I had another horse who loved to lunge to stretch and get a buck or two out. He would lunge himself, literally change direction when he needed to and would stop and say "all done!" Lunge lines should not be used to wear a horse out or run them. This is why people have a bad opinion about lunging.
ReplyDeleteI was always in the camp of lunging is bad for joints and to be avoided until Stampede was diagnosed with kissing spines. Prior he had always been fairly exuberant on the lunge and it was something I dreaded doing because he was hard to hold onto. Yet the diagnosis of kissing spines put me directly into the fact that working my horse in such a way so as to strengthen his back without me on him is what's best for him. I think we become immune to the fact that riding a horse does put stress on their bodies in other ways that lunging does not.
ReplyDeleteStampede in the process has learned a lot. He became more responsive to voice commands and was forced to learn to carry himself while going in a knock off pessoa rig on a contact (when not cheating by trying to go slow!). I keep my circles big by actually walking myself too, so really it's not a huge strain on his legs to do it, although I'm sure there is some. Coming up when I actually start a vet surpervised rehab protocal for his back, he will be lunging only for several weeks.
After my experience I do think lunging has a definite place and I do want all my future horses to know how to lunge properly and politely.
I don't really lunge.... but natural horsemanship taught me how to send the horse on a circle and teach them responsibility. I have never used any more gadgets than a halter and long rope (at least 20 foot, preferably longer). Once the horse knows that its their responsibility to stay on the circle, they start looking for opportunities to do the right thing so that you'll let them come back in. I like to see them start moving correctly, drop the head, lift the back, whatever, just move nicely and correctly and then I let them come off the circle. It has taken time, but the best thing from it is that I have not had to use any gadgets to get a nice frame. Lady's way of going and frame has just improved overall because she gets to learn it on her own. :) May not work for every horse, but it worked for me!
ReplyDeleteWe lunge for groundwork only. I do a lot of join up with Red but it's basically free lunging, nothing hard that actually makes him sweat or get super tired. I think it's great for horses to learn different cues and get in a better partnership and get in sync a bit more. We plan on lunging Shalom a few times when he's at a better weight and his wither is healed up for ground manner issues and a few times with a saddle on because we don't know how he acts with tack and considering it's been a long time since he's been ridden, if a few minutes in the round pen can save us from a lot of trouble with us ON him, it's worth the effort, haha.
ReplyDeleteI have used both "lunging" and natural horsemanship sending in a circle for different reasons. When I am doing ground work and sending her out, it is all about engaging her mind and teaching her to think her way through what I am asking, and then rewarding her when she gets it right by letting her come in. These thinking sessions work really well to get her interested in me and set me up as her leader. When I lunge, it is when there is so much energy in her I don't feel safe. Then a good five minutes of hard work is enough to get her brain back in her head and move on.
ReplyDeleteI used lunging to help Ashke rebalance his body and to overcome his compensation mechanism in protecting his injuries. It helped a lot, since it was something he needed to do without a person on his back. We spent a couple of days a week with him in a Balance Training System in the round pen, letting him figure out his body.
ReplyDeleteSince then, I find work on the trail to be much more effective than work in the round pen to strengthen and reemphasis the need for him to carry himself and me in a correct manner. The only time we lunge now is if he is being a complete a total dork, and it's more and expenditure of energy on his part (with me standing in the middle not asking for anything while he cavorts and caprioles around me) for maybe five minutes before I get on. This has only happened twice in the past eight months.
I think it's a good training tool.
I'm pro lunging and pro gadget. I used to lease a horse that had had EPM and during his rehab he was worked in a Pessoa rig. It helped immensely, let him regain muscle and balance without the weight/interference of a rider. After he recovered my trainer still had me work him in the rig at least once a week (never more than 30mins) to help keep him as fit as possible (he was 18).
ReplyDeleteI lunge my 6yr OTTB weekly now in a fauxssoa, again to help her learn balance and contact on her own. Never more than 20 mins and mostly at the trot. If she is cracked out and crazy before our rides I free lunge her in the arena as much as I can rather than putting her on a line.
I am pro lunging to teach a horse about contact and using their body at all the gaits while maintaining a proper dressage frame and not having to worry about a rider. That said, my horse is personally a train wreck when it comes to lunging. He'd rather fall over than figure things out on the lunge, and will totally devolve into a nervous mess. He's the rare horse that HAS to be sorted out under saddle.
ReplyDeleteI guess what I'm saying is: It's a great tool, but like every tool, it is not right for every horse.
Delete^Not so rare. Fiction is the same way! :)
DeleteAs with many things, there is a right way to longe and a wrong way. I abhor sloppy longeing. When starting horses, it is a way to introduce ideas to them, for them to learn what is expected of them and to hear your voice and transitions. for more experienced horses, it can be a way to school something that perhaps they are having trouble with, and they can figure out what their body is doing without having to handle balancing a rider as well.
ReplyDeleteI personally do not care for it as a way to tire a horse, run off the bucks, and such. For me it is a tool. I have used side reins, which give the sensation of contact, but my guy prefers a sliding siding rein, or Vienna rein, because it allows him to stretch and won't catch him or punish him like a fixed side rein will.
My personal longeing pet peeves:
tangled and/or twisted line (hinders communication)
line hitting the ground (dangerous)
the horse turning in (who's making the choices here?)
the horse in control of longeing situation (again, rider should be dictating school)
Longeing should be just as deliberate and planned as u/s.
I also prefer a riding rein to a driving rein. I feel I have more control and communication is more natural and intuitive on my end.
But each her own. Good luck!
Also, not saying my way is "right" but there is a lot of wrong, sloppy, and lazy out there. plenty of good books on subject.
DeleteCompletely agreed!
DeleteI'm obviously in the minority, but I lunge at shows to release extra energy (approx. 15-20 minutes). It's not something that I love to do, but I've found that for Miles and I it's what works best and allows us to have safe, positive rounds at shows.
ReplyDeleteNothing wrong with that. I think if you had to do this before every ride then it's a problem. A 20 min lunge to ensure a positive ride at a show is NBD :)
DeleteI use lunging as part of groundwork when starting baby horses; it's just so much easier to get on them having established that we can walk, trot and canter with a saddle, a bridle, and contact on the bit. Also helps to burn energy and tone muscles so that they can already carry themselves pretty well by the time I add my weight.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I lunge all my horses at all levels. It improves their balance and strength, especially lunging over ground poles. Sure, it is darned hard work - I seldom lunge for more than 20 minutes - but only hard work will improve fitness and strength.
I'm always a little nervous when horses are lunged at shows, especially as this is usually done in the parking lot instead of an arena. I know from experience that if a horse puts his head down and takes off on the lunge, there's no way you're going to stop him from the ground. That said, I'll bet it's the lesser of two evils in many cases.
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ReplyDeleteI round pen as a way to release energy. I don't have the option for daily turnout, and I'm not always up to trudging across the arena to get her to run off the excess edge.. so if I'm particularly concerned (maybe once a month?), we'll head to the round pen for a few minutes. Nice transitions, no sass? Cool, we're done. Head tossing and kicks? Time to work for a few more minutes.
ReplyDeleteAll these things people have already said, I agree are really good reasons to lunge different horses. The common thread is "lunge with purpose" - even if that intent is safely blowing off steam at a show, when turnout isn't an option.
ReplyDeleteAnother reason is not about the horse, though - I've used lunging as a way to figure out my own issues, too. Lunging lessons are a great way to have saddle time for addressing specific habits and "me" problems, without having to even think about steering, collection, etc.
For me it usually depends on the horse and the situation. Just last night I lunged my WB mare. There are days when I just don't have the time to ride, but a little free work will keep her in shape for the days when I do.
ReplyDeleteThere are days when she's fresh and needs to blow off steam, days when she needs a refresher in respect on the ground and days when I lunge to see where she's at mentally. If her head isn't in the game, (or mine either for that matter) it's a good day to stay on the ground. My horses are allowed to work freely in the round pen, but also know how to lunge on a line without dragging me anywhere.
Oh man this is topic for the ages. There are so many ways to lunge, it really is personal preference. I do it to help train, NEVER to let off steam. I think that's rude and I NEVER EVER let my horses gallop on the lunge. I use it as a tool. Or when I'm really too lazy to ride but want to give a quick workout. Esp helpful with the weak OTTBs.
ReplyDeleteI have my cardinal rules
1) never lunge more than 20 min. Who wants to go in circles that long. Also, like you, I think it can wear on them after a while. Plus its HARD work!
2) limit the gadgets. I have a lunge line and sidereins. That's it. thought about a neck stretcher at one time but really, I dislike anything that cant provide a "self release" for the horse. I never have the side reins tight, usually loose. They are only there to remind them not to have their head in the air. If they are carrying themselves properly, they will be loose. Simple as that. I've been very against the Pessoa systems bc of the fact that the freaking bit is attached the line that runs across their ass-basically jamming themselves with their own movement every.single. step. And tell me how this helps and provides positive reinforcement? Forcing a horse is NOT the way to train anything into them.
3) end on a good note. If they bend in their neck/over the back and give 3 nice transitions after warm up, I end it. If they have their head in the air running around all crooked, work through it for some relaxation, then be done.
4) MUST know voice commands. Before I ever do any work over poles, or even mess with sidereins and want them to walk, trot, canter up/down transitions perfectly by voice ONLY. I HATE snapping the lunge whip and yanking on their mouths to get them to slow down. It REALLY helps.
And that's how and why I lunge
I definitely think lunging has its place as a training tool and as a safety tool. It is a tool for the toolbox, and just like any tool, if used incorrectly, excessively or by the uneducated, it can be counter productive or harmful.
ReplyDeleteLunging with the guidance of an experienced trainer has helped both me and my horse learn. I learned the difference between a false frame and seeing him use himself correctly - which muscles are engaged and which are relaxed. This has helped me under saddle, as I have a better mental picture of what it should look/feel like. Also, as others have said, my guy has more opportunity to learn without all my extra inadverdent input. I'm far from a pro rider, and do not have the balance, timing and feel to always help his best efforts under saddle.
My guy gets lunged for about 20 min once a week or once every other week, depending on my work schedule. The rest of the time is under saddle time: lessons, ringwork and trail rides.
Such novels! I never lunge, though my trainer taught me to lunge using the line as the inside rein, being held in the same manner and with the same tension as the reins, and the whip as the outside leg. Lunging never made more sense to me as it did when I started lunging like that and not just letting them freewheel around however they chose.
ReplyDeleteI "free longe" or turn out when I sense a buck or 2 that need to come out. I longe with a line (and sometimes gadgets) for training. Many people only longe in a round pen - I prefer to longe in large arenas or open space, doing various exercises (for example, longing a square instead of a circle, or doing "walk the dog" or moving hips or shoulders in or out). Some are more games and some exercises work on contact and proper carriage.
ReplyDeleteWell, for those of us without the ability to turn out young/ and or hot horse daily, I see no prob with using a brief lunge to get the sillies out. Holly likes to give a few bucks, run like a wild horse escaping a fire demon for a few laps, then she's generally good. She doesn't need it every day, and I skipped it most of the summer, but in chilly season, it certainly takes the edge off. Its like recess, getting moving without being forced to do much specifically.
ReplyDeleteNow that I'm not riding, I find using a harness to keep her framed and working like twice days a week, its the only way I can work her right now. She is also getting ridden 3 times/week so everything is being backed up by saddle time. Its also a great way to work on voice commands, etc. I'd love a Pessoa type system.
I should specify I guess reading others comments that I say lunge, but I mean round pen/ free lunge. If she is on the line, its because we are stuck in the indoor, and I expect better behavior from her.
DeleteFor people with cold-backed horses, lunging is a useful tool to help warm up the back muscles before getting on. Helps make the horse more comfortable when you do put your weight on their backs, and helps you not get bucked off ;-)
ReplyDeleteI agree! I worked with a pony who would freak out shortly after being mounted. He was a very talented pony and very sweet to be around, but he had hospitalized several people. It turned out that lunging, just for a few minutes, before getting on completely resolved his issues.
DeleteI am a huge fan on lunging for green or unfit horses, as a way to strengthen muscles and introduce bend without the weight and pressure of a rider on their back. I use side reins frequently to encourage contact and proper use of their body, but not crank the head in. Also, lunging can be good for the rider, as you can focus on your horse's movement and see what improves or hinders it. I have learned a lot about my horse's weaknesses through lunging, moreso than riding!! I have never liked when it is used to wear down a horse, although it can be helpful if the horse is very hot... but as a warm up or "get the sillies out" thing, not a "run 'em down!" sort of thing.
ReplyDeleteI lunged Sydney twice at the new barn so that she could see things and decide how she felt about everything without me on her back. I have also free lunged her to get some sillies out when I haven't been able to ride her in more than 3 days for whatever reason. Overall I don't believe in lunging. It creates a more fit horse, without creating a more fit rider. And while many people are trying to lunge to get sillies out, the fitter the horse gets the more sillies they are going to have.
ReplyDeleteFor the most part, I use lunging only with young or remedial horses. I don't do your classical lunging at the walk, trot, and canter either. I use lunging to teach young horses to carry tack and learn their gaits, and eventually to start over fences. However, I also use ground work to build respect and trust with horses who have issues, in which case it's less about circling calmly and more about changing direction, obeying cues, and really tuning into the trainer/handler.
ReplyDeleteIn general, however, I don't lunge broke horses. If I do, I do it in side reins to help build balance and topline. I don't like the idea of 'lunging the crazy' out because if you make it a regular habit, you end up having to lunge longer and longer each day as your horse gets fitter. Eventually, you end up lunging for an hour before a twenty minute ride! With that said, I'm all for 'getting the bucks out' on a particularly frisky day.
Great topic! I try to keep my mouth shut about lunging as it tends to get people all hot and angry, but I felt like chiming in here.
lots of opinions here! I lunge mainly for work - over cavelletti - but I lunged William the other day before my first ride back because he is a known bronco so...I don't know. Unless it's for training and done correctly, I'm not a fan.
ReplyDeleteI lunge Mo to get him balanced and in self carriage and to work out things like leads. I hate lunging to get the bucks out. I think lunging is boring but I suck it up because Mo needs it. Some need more than others.
ReplyDeleteI started wiz with flat work abd progressed to lunge work and then the pessoa to teach contact and strengthen his back before ever sitting on him.
ReplyDeleteI lunged him shortly before every ride when we first started, as a way to asses his brain and establish my leadership before getting on.
But as he got older I stopped lunging bc I agree in general it just makes a hit horse fitter and messes up their joints.
However, whenever I have a problem in the saddle, I go back to the ground. I finally had had it with him bucking the other day (literally bronco bucked me down the entire long side!), and I hopped off and put him on the line and made all kinds of scary noises just daring him to buck, and every time he did basically made him really wish he hadn't (not a proponent of tearing into your horse but when all else fails... and at this point, I'm willing to try just about anything because if I sell him he'll end up at the slaughter house if he doesn't cut it out). And by the end, he would think about bucking but wouldn't and I'd praise him. When I jumped back on he felt a lot more relaxed and free in his body and didn't try to buck. We've repeated this a few times since and the bucking has lessened to none on the line the last time and none under saddle.
So. Like everyone else says. Lunging with purpose.
Lunging definitely has it's benefits. I like using it to help them get some energy out and start their brain working, or to give them a little bit of work when I don't feel like riding. I incorporate more natural horsemanship stuff than the traditional going around-and-around-and-around though. I'll ask for transitions and turns, working on controlling their feet and bending their ribcage, generally try to get their mind focused. It works for me, but I don't really do it that often.
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