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| Excellent use of turnout |
Today, let's talk about group turnout for riding horses.
Let me clarify. I absolutely 100% understand group turnout for retirees, broodies, babies, and horses who aren't in work. It provides them with social structure and helps them understand how to interact with other beings and that is great.
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| Things he doesn't need help destroying. |
I really and truly do not understand group turnout (aside from well-matched, same gender pairs) for horses that are in regular work. It seems like the injury risk goes through the roof and the horses become bonded to each other instead of their riders. Expensive blankets (that are required because riding horses are clipped) get destroyed, vet visits go up from kicking and playing too hard, and the potential for things to go wrong is just so high.
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| Helpful corgi wants to know |
Positives include a happy horse. Lone horses are unhappy horses because they know they are a cougar snack waiting to happy. And that's reason enough for me!
ReplyDeleteIf you have horses crammed into a too-small space or have bad eggs who are unsocialized, there will be fighting. But that's just the problem - nobody socializes their young horses. So when you kick them out into group turnout when they are older, or you rotate horses in and out of their herd at random, they get aggressive and act out. If they knew how to 'talk horse' to one another, and if they had enough room to get away from one another, there wouldn't be a problem.
I regret all of Gogo's years of solo turnout. I also regret stalling her and babying her as much as I did. None of it saved her. I work the crap out of O and she lives out in a big paddock with her buddy on a bunch of rocks, barefoot and naked most of the time... she's sound and fine and healthy and happy.
I guess it just comes down to whether or not we want to treat them like horses, and if we're willing to take the time to let them learn to be horses. Sure, they get attached to their herdmates. They might have some missing little marks of hair from playing. But they'll still be bonded to their riders and work for them, and they'll be of a sounder mind and body.
Well said!!
DeleteJust what I was about to say - sounder, saner, happier horses. That's enough for me. Small inconsequential occasional injuries may happen but to me the benefits far outweigh the risks.
DeleteTotally agree. Emotionally balanced horse. Charlie did a 180 once he started getting turned out with his group of geldings and I'll never go back.
DeleteDitto! In fact horses in group turn out are more likely to exercise on their own which lessens the risk for injury when riding them. If a horse is turned out alone in a small paddock and only ridden in an arena they aren't challenged by the terrain at all! They are going to be at higher risk for injury than a horse playing in a group over varied and uneven terrain in a large pasture. I understand it isn't feasible for some people but I really miss having mine on forty acres that had lots of slopes and hills. This flat five acre thing really sucks!!
DeleteWhat Andrea said. Ha. And it makes for a much calmer horse! All that playing makes some nicks sometimes, but it also means that your horse isn't exploding when you ride (well, MOST of the time...)! That said, River doesn't wear blankets during the summer, so we don't have to fuss about that. Winter--sometimes yes, sometimes no. (Going to try for no, this year). Yes, injuries happen. They happen without group turnout, too. Yes, they get bonded to their buddies. I figure, I get attached to my friends too...and I'm in a good place in that the horses I've ridden have usually been pretty philosophical about leaving friends. There might be some screaming and some balking at first, but they get over it.
ReplyDeleteThat said, if you choose to do solo turnout or turnout with just one other friend, I'm certainly not going to judge you. But group turnout 24/7 has been the best thing for River, ever! :)
I think group turnout is a mentally and emotionally healthier choice for most horses, provided that they are in a situation where they are not getting picked on or beating up on other horses. They are social creatures, and enjoy being together in groups. Personally, I have never had an issue with my riding horses being "too bonded" to their turnout buddies to the point where it affects performance. The horses that do go out by themselves at my barn (due to aggression issues, or over-protective owners) tend to become more stressed than horses in group turnout, displaying behaviors like pacing, calling out, running the fenceline, etc. The horses who go out in groups are more relaxed. We also make sure all horses in the group get along, and if there is any issue, we move them to a group where they won't get picked on/pick on others. And from a practicality standpoint, many farms just don't have the room to give everyone their own individual turnout paddock! I'm all for group turnout, it's the way horses are designed to live.
ReplyDeleteWe are having this conversation right now at the barn. My trainer's exact words were: "As the horses are getting more valuable here [BO's daughter's imported baby warmblood being the top of that list], I wish I had more options for segregation." We've had some devastating pasture accidents, including a kick to the stifle that led to 10 months of stall rest for an actively competing horse, but there are also groups that have never had an issue. Personally, I am pro-horse happiness, so my philosophy is semi-private turnout with the right, carefully chosen and carefully introduced buddy, with careful regard for those with hind shoes.
ReplyDeleteWhile I much prefer to keep a horse in group turnout, I do like to limit the number of horses. Fiction is turned out with two other older horses who are just as mellow as he is. Aside from the occasional bite mark or lost shoe, there are no issues and Fiction is a much happier horse because of it. He would go absolutely bonkers in single turnout (which he has done before and nearly killed himself galloping up and down the fence until we turned him out with someone else). Some horses can handle the solitary turnout and some horses can't. And while Fiction is very herd bound when around the barn, he doesn't carry that mentality over to the shows, even if his field buddy is there with him. Overall I think he is happier, and healthier because of it. I know I would go bonkers if I was alone all the time!
ReplyDeleteSo Miles is an ass in turnout; he's the horse that's destroying your blankets and eating your horse's mane. Therefore, he is on individual turnout. But when they get indoor turnout, he literally just stands there and doesn't move... which defeats the entire purpose. So he gets a very good-natured, easy-going turnout buddy for indoor turnout.
ReplyDeleteSo he doesn't kill me when I try to ride, haha.
No group turnout is kind of like being in school, in the classroom, by yourself, without a recess or group lunch, for years. Horses, by nature, are group animals and if they are raised correctly, should fit into a group and be a horse without issue. For those that can't, other options that allow them to socialize with another horse are important.
ReplyDeleteYes, there are compelling reasons to keep horses separate. Most of those reasons have to do with the people owning the horses, and not with the horses themselves. Horses form connections, just like people do, and just like we don't really want to go grocery shopping alone, horses prefer the company of others as well.
Ashke lives in a stall with a run, with horses on both sides that he plays with through/under the fence. There is pasture board available at our place, but because of his past I need him in an environment where I can control the calories that he intakes. Being in a pasture with two mares contributed to his prior emaciation.
My barn has huge pastures of group turnout. In the year I have been there, I have no knowledge of any accidents. That being said, the pastures are super big, everyone pretty much gets daily check ins, and there is less of a need for blankets in the desert. There is no need to lunge at our barn cuz everyone is out all the time or huge periods of the day. I love it.
ReplyDeletebig topic! i've only ever been at barns that are primarily group turnout - tho some have had the fancier private horses separated or in groups of two. Isabel currently lives in a mixed group with two geldings and three other mares.
ReplyDeleteit's always been my impression that as herd animals, horses are happier in groups. and my philosophy is that, as an ammy who is in it for the fun, what's good for the horse is ultimately good for me.
the risk of accidents is real tho, and i get that completely. but of course, a lone horse (esp one who's not super happy about it) is more than capable of hurting himself without any help.
I am a big fan of turning out horses together. We keep our horses at home and I have a 6 acre field divided in half for turnout. HOWEVER, I have actively made the choice to keep my horse and my daughter's pony separated. My decision is not based on blanket repair bills or injuries but on the dynamics of my own particular situation.
ReplyDelete1. These are the only two horses on the property. This means that when one gets trailered for a lesson/show the other is left behind. Instead of a horse galloping up and down the fence line or screaming his head off, there's a little nicker and then back to the large, unexpected pile of hay.
2. If one has to be in a stall b/c of an injury, waiting for the farrier, over night b/c of a show the next morning there are no issues. The one in the stall is OK, the one out in the field is OK. Of course I can stall them both but sometimes it makes sense just to have one in.
3. Solo trail rides are not issues for either the horse going or the horse left behind.
4. I am HOPING for no unreasonable amount of bonding at shows, etc. when we do trailer them out together. I haven't done that yet so I'm not sure what will happen.
5. Even though my boy is easy to handle, he is still a youngster (5 y.o.). My daughter, who is 9 can easily get her pony out of the pasture on her own b/c she's not dealing with trying to keep my boy in at the same time.
As for napping while alone in a field. . .just ask my boy about that. He loves his morning, afternoon AND early evening nap, completely sprawled out with belly exposed for that coyote attack.
I know that my reasons are more "human-centric" than "horse-centric" but it works for us. It also makes feeding easier during the months when I chose to do 24/7 turnout.
I love group turnout as long as horses are fed individually! When Gina was out with one or two other geldings, she was totally bonkers. She was aggressive to me, to the other horses, and was impossible to catch. It was like her brain was totally fried. As soon as she was moved to more herd-like situation (8 horses or so, mix of mares and geldings), she improved dramatically. She'd moved down in the pecking order and was a different horse who was happy to see me and did nothing more than lay her ears back at other horses. Poor Moe is always at the bottom of the pecking order wherever he lives and whoever he lives with, but he's totally miserable by himself. If he's in a herd and I take Gina out, he doesn't spend any time being upset for his friend, and vice versa.
ReplyDeleteLast year I was about to sell Lily because I was at my wit's end with her erratic behavior: explosive, fearful, overreacting to anything and everything both on the ground and US. She was turned out 12 hrs a day in a large mixed herd (20+ horses) on 15 acres. Not enough room for that many horses. Horses constantly lame, and I had some serious attachment issues between my mare and geldings. I tried her on semi-private turnout, first with another mare and later with a quiet gelding instead of the mare, with the same result: HIGH anxiety on Lily's part as she paced the fence line between her individual field and the main herd's field. She became even more of a nervous wreck.
ReplyDeleteAs a last resort, I moved her to 24/7 turnout on 5 acres with a small mare-only herd (5 horses total). It has been like night and day for her. Completely different horse! I was TERRIFIED to leave the arena with her and here we are doing endurance and considering teaching her to go bridleless just for fun. I never thought I'd be doing all of the stuff I'm currently doing with her; you've seen my blog. The group turnout *with a smaller group in a field of an appropriate size* is what made the biggest difference for her. I love my particular situation because the mares get separated into small pens where they are fed their grain; not all pasture board barns will do this.
I'm now big on the group turnout, as long as the area where the horses are in is large enough to accommodate the number of horses on it. You run into problems when there are too many horses for the acreage. You often run into attachment issues if you only have two horses together all the time. You also run into problems when the horses have to compete for food, when you have a studdy gelding driving the mares crazy (the gelding will probably be harder to handle US and the mares will also be harder to handle), or when you have an abusive alpha horse, all situations which can happen. I refuse to have my mare out with horses that have hind shoes: those can inflict so much damage even with the lightest kick. Some horses are just not properly socialized with other horses simply because they have lived in a stall all of their lives: these are the ones that often either beat everyone else up or get beaten up by the others.
Horses are herd animals and they are not meant to be kept in a box, though each horse is different and some horses really enjoy being in their stalls. Others need it due to health issues. And others need it because they keep getting beat up by the other horses at pasture *but* like I said above, this kind of issue is more common when you don't have enough room for the number of horses. Each situation is different. But the average horse needs the movement of turnout for proper digestion and circulation and the socialization of being with a herd for their mental health. Studies have shown that pastured horses will even retain their fitness longer than stalled horses: a fit horse turned out to pasture for 6 months with no additional work will hold his fitness as if consistent work had been continued. I have found this to be true with Lily. I give her random 2 week vacations and come back to a horse who is stronger, more muscled and more fit than when I last touched her! It is pretty incredible.
So that's my 2 cents on the subject. :) Loving this series btw!
Right now my horse is in with 11 other horses and I *hate* it. Hate hate hate. But I love my barn and the only reason I'd leave is the reason I'm using now - we bought a farm and they are coming home. Not only is it dangerous for my horse and he constantly gets in fights because he's basically the only calm one, it's dangerous for me to go get him because I end up being trampled or terrified to go out in the pasture, making me dread barn visits because it's downright scary. There are several hormonal mares, three VERY young horses that are unbroke, and the rest are just green horses, thus resulting in my very broke, very calm and seasoned horse being alone with two other horses that are decent.
ReplyDeleteWhen I move them home, my Quarter and my mom's Appaloosa who are very good together and calm will be turned out together along with our new rescue, an appendix. They are all calm and keep to themselves so I'm hoping they'll do good.
IMO, there should never be more than 4 horses together in a pasture. It's a pain, it's dangerous and it causes horses to be buddy sour and hard to catch.
But they have to be fed separately and etc.
Sometimes that's all you can get! I prefer semi-private, which is what Simon has now.
ReplyDeleteHorses are herd animals. They thrive and physically/emotionally NEED social interaction. Millions of years of evolution have taught us this much. I'm very very very big on horse happiness and I think that no turnout or individual turnout just isn't fair to them. It's like asking you or I to be okay with always being alone. Obviously not all situations allow for group turnout, but if the option allows horses should have at least one buddy. My mare would be miserable my herself, individual turnout would be ulcers waiting to happen for her. By the same token, people have to be smart when turning out horses in groups. You can't just cram a bunch of horses together and expect it to work out because it won't. Missy has one mare buddy that she shares a big pasture with 12 hours a day. It's a good situation and I would never consider forcing her to be alone even with the risk of injury (and blankets can be replaced).
ReplyDeleteHemie gets turned out in an arena with 1 to 2 friends for 15 minutes about once every week or two. They LOVE it, but have all the awkwardness of completely unsocialized children. They squeal and rear and kick and bite and run around. There's risk for injury, especially since they are such derps, but the benefit is worth the risk since they get such minimal herd time.
ReplyDeleteIt's all opinion. Preach to me until you are blue in the face but my horses are not, I repeat, are not going in group turnout. If you have 2 that get along great, that's fine. I have limited horses and limited space and I am not about to stick my aggressive mare out with a huge playful baby so I can have 2 injured horses. His only other turnout buddy option is my 25 yo retiree who is way too fragile and slow to defend himself. So 2 of my horses are turned out alone but share fence lines. That the best I can provide.
ReplyDeleteBut that's all a matter of finding proper herd dynamics. I would never just throw a mish mash of horses out together and hope for the best.
DeleteWhat has already been said - but I will also add that horses on individual turnout get hurt and are lame more often than those in group turnout. They thrive being in a herd - it is natural to them and the place they are happiest. They live for their pecking order - I often spend so much time just watching the horses interact in their field - they know safe spaces, they are not stupid.
ReplyDeleteIndividual turnout can increase stress, anxiety, fence walking, double turnout can increase herdboundness etc. Obviously, you can only do what you can, but my horses have always been in a group turnout - and always will. I have not had a single field injury other than a scrape in my entire horse owning life while horses are turnout out in a group.
Ohhhhh yes. I did individualized turnout for Gogo for years because she was aggressive and unsocialized and would attack other horses. She would also run the fence, for hours... and hours.... and hours. And then she would come and stand by the gate and beg to come back into her tiny little box. And eventually all of that caught up and now she's in a hole.
DeletePeople refuse to turn their babies out because they are "too valuable." Then they don't turn their show horses out because they are "too valuable." Then they have a horse that they CAN'T turn out because it has no manners with other horses, and will get hurt.
Sad when all these "too valuable" horses almost never get to live as, well, horses.
DeleteFrom shitty feet to upper body issues, mental troubles etc etc you see in top quality horses, it seems logical to me that if we treat horses like horses there is less chance of injury or disease and more chance of having a healthy, happy riding horse with a long term athletic career. But caring for horses in a species appropriate way is often also quite difficult if you don't have access to the facilities required.
I never really think of this. Normally Yankee is with one buddy, if not alone. I was on self care and sometimes our schedules just didn't work out where it worked to turnout together (one would bring in early or turnout late and the lonesome horse would fret). It was just easier to keep them alone. It was stressful to even try to put them with a friend because of compatibility issues and human scheduling.
ReplyDeleteBefore that barn, he was alone, but next to other horses and was fine.
Before that he was at a massssive dressage barn (on a lease) and was with 15 other horses. I am unsure how that panned out, but when he came back to me his blankets were wrecked and he was a grumpy bastard, so I can't say it was good. He did love to play though.
Before that, and now currently, he goes out just with one horse. We are limited on space and it just isn't practical to do indiv. turnout. The downside to this is attachment. Everytime I take one away to ride, they frantically whinny. Horses are so dumb. Luckily, no injuries yet.
Overall, I have found with my horse that he is better alone. No stress, goes about his business. Its when I add a companion that he freaks out if they leave. As long as he can see other horses turned out he is fine. Of course, he was ALWAYS able to injure himself alone, so that didn't even matter but when I tried group turnout he got creamed by the bullies.
Its just easier to control all the things with each horse if they're alone (you can fed outside, hay grain etc) and tailor their turnout to themselves and not worry about others. Obviously this isn't possible in some environments though, or even some horses.
This is a great topic - wonderful discussion here! I don't have much to add than what's already been said. Hampton has been on both sides of the fence (hahaha pun intended). He grew up living outside 24/7 in a herd. All geldings/colts until he was 2, then to a mix gender herd when I purchased him. He got pretty roughed up by the dominant mares. At times he looked like he was put through a meat grinder. But at the time I did not have the option to move him and that barn only offered turn out in the one field. I was lucky he did not get seriously hurt. BUT, he did learn herd manners and since leaving that farm, he has never been low on the pecking order. He is not a bully, but all he has to do is pin his ears and everyone else moves out of the way. Now he goes out with I think 8 other geldings. In a HUGE field. They get along, and there is more than enough room to run away should a discussion happen. I think that is the key to group turn out. Like minded horses (don't put a 27 year old, arthritic guy out with more playful/rough horses), with plenty of room. But I have no issue with those who want to have individual turn out. It's whatever works for you and your horse. Sometimes you take when you can get with the farm policies, or what you can afford. I know Hampton is happier out with a group, and I have not had any buddy sour issues with him with the exception of sometimes bonding with the other horse on a trailer going to shows. haha.
ReplyDeleteI think it really depends on the horse. I feel like it can teach them both confidence and how to be the low man on the totem pole. You just have to find the right match and make sure that they have enough space. The problem is that when they do get attached and don't want to leave the other horse(s), a lot of people give in to it and basically screw themselves. I have one girl that goes on about how her horse can't be without the other one so they have to go every where together... They've only been together for 2 months. That's a training issue and a bond issue, not a horse attachment issue. I like turning horses out together but it's the same opinion of home school or regular school. Every horse is different. :)
ReplyDeleteI own my own property and have my four horses, plus three boarders. I also grew up on a farm with horses at home all my life. From my experience, horses thrive on having buddies and do best when they have the perfect matches for their place in a herd. For example, a bossy, playful but immature gelding may be a nervous wreck in with other young horses (he will be constantly trying to prove he is boss, but really not comfortable BEING boss), but calm and happy with an older boss horse. Finding the right herd is key.
ReplyDeleteAfter 38 years of watching horses, fixing fence, mending wounds, I have learned mares are the easiest to keep and least likely to get hurt. They settle into their hierarchy spots and get down to eating and sleeping, while boys never quite stop "playing"! :)
I horse by their self? That just makes me sad. We all need friends. :)
The mares vs geldings is so true lol. We put our mini mare with a pony mare (and recently added an ex-cow pony gelding to the herd), and they’re both extremely sassy but other than the bigger mare stealing everyone’s food they’re chill and don’t fight, kind of like sisters.
DeleteThen there’s the 4 geldings, who come in with a ripped rug and new bite on the neck every time. Despite the herd leader having been established for years, they’re all over each other fighting and playing constantly.
I think of it as somewhat cruel for horses to be kept in isolation, or apart from other horses. They are living, breathing things that have just as much right to be a horse than we have to be a human. Taking them away from their natural instincts is unfair and just plain mean.
ReplyDeleteYou have to think of it from your own perspective - if you were kept without human contact, etc, how would you feel?
I'm definitely pro- group turn out. In fact, my mare was depressed until I brought Tally in to keep her company.
Even with my current issues I am pro group turnout - issues and accidents happen no matter what.
ReplyDeleteNow I am against my horse going out with a bigger horse wearing hind shoes - that was my option with Don so I opted for individual turnout, since the other horse could have broken him with one steel shod hoof while playing.
Well Mollie is a humongous wench and absolutely cannot be turned out with others. She will beat the shit out of them. And she will win. It's just how she is, how she's always been, and I don't think it's because she wasn't "socialized" as a youngster. She was born on a working cattle ranch with 298292838 other horses, and then lived with one other horse, and then I bought her. She's just a bitch. So she gets individual turnout, she's happy, I'm happy, and life is good.
ReplyDeleteI honestly find horses that NEED companionship super annoying... but that's because I'm spoiled.
I think horses that grow up and have to compete with 59953592949593929 other horses naturally become bitches - because otherwise they won't eat!
DeleteI could pretty much echo what all the pro-group turn out people here have said.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the day, horses are herd animals. 99% of the time, they will prefer to be in a well balanced herd rather than be alone. Of course, there will always be horses who prefer the life of solitude, but they are the exception rather than the rule. In my experience, most horses put on private turn out are there either due to "necessity" (no other suitable barns in the area, etc.) or owner convenience. Neither of those reasons really cut it for me, which is why I commute an hour to the barn.
In terms of a riding horse, I would say the biggest annoyance is those that are hard to catch. I know a few, and my mare is in that phase right now. Other than that, I don't see any disadvantages. My mare is happy, she's socializing, she feels secure in her environment, she understand herd dynamics (and understands that I'm her alpha). She gets exercise (but not as much as you would think - 9 out of 10 times, solitary horses I've seen are much more active than horses in herds), she has nice feet (grazing with the herd). Because care and thought went into the placement of horses in the herd, she has had no serious injuries as a result of turn out... actually, no injuries at all, just the odd scratch or bite mark (**KNOCK WOOD**). She even wore a blanket last winter and it thrived well.
It will always come down to personal preference, but for me, it's a priority.
Interesting topic!
While I would love to have my mare enjoying group or even semi-private turnout, our barn is mostly $$$ A circuit imported warmbloods, and as such, has mostly individual-sized turnouts.
ReplyDeletePlus, it seems like 90% of the barn is a gelding, and the other 3 mares are either too valuable or have bullied her when we tried. I don't like her out with the boys, she too much of a flirt (so annoying in cross ties!) and she's a very passive horse who is easy to run off hay, grass etc.
She seems very happy, but is also the kind of horse who takes everything with her ears pricked forward.
All I've got is the best we can do is be a good horseman. Know our horse and do what is best for them and our situation. No cut and dry answer. For a home farm it simplifies it all because you can flip, flop, move and do pretty much whatever you want when you want. Boarding makes it more complicated. What I do is just what works for me and my horses. My horses are extremely happy and relaxed animals. They pretty much munch and meander 24/7. I have two easy keeping ponies that need to be on very little food so they are in a 2 acre pasture. Steady is best on 24/7 good grass pasture so he stays in a 1 acre pasture by himself but they share a fence line. They usually sleep next to the fence line all near each other. In the winter they are all together in the 2 acre pasture with a round bale. That's what we do.
ReplyDeleteLucy goes out/lives (she has a lovely incredibly nice stall which she hates, so she gets free access to roam the paddock/pasture it opens into) with her mini donkey and it works fabulously. Then again, it only works because they're at our house and we have the flexibility to do something like that.
ReplyDeleteIt's a controversial decision, but I tend to choose happy and a bit scraped up over sound-as-a-bell and miserable. I like to put them out in bigger groups in quite large pastures, just because that is the way horses are made to be. That said, it takes some careful management to stop them from being herd-bound or hard to catch. Also, some horses just don't get along with others and I have one whose friends need to be carefully hand-picked or they'll beat him up. It depends on the horse.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I'd generally stick to individual turnout for horses I don't own. I don't need an owner jumping down my throat because my horse kicked their horse! For mine, though, I like them to have as much space and company as I can conveniently give them.
I almost forgot to mention that another reason I think group turnout is important is because of how little time we spend with them... the average person only spends a few hours a day with their horses, grooming, riding, grazing, bathing, etc. That means a horse in individual turn out is alone for around twenty hours a day! I can't even imagine being alone that much! I'd go crazy! I think since the horse lets us ride them, teach them, train them, expose them to some crazy situations, etc. that they deserve to relax with their buddies the rest of the time. :)
ReplyDeleteGroup turnout all the way. It’s the natural dynamic for a horse; their brains are wired in a herd mentality, to deprive them of a herd is in a way going against their natural tendencies, and imo denying them time to just be a horse.
ReplyDeleteHorses are just as capable of injuring themselves alone as in a herd, and personally I feel like a few dings and a ripped rug or two are well worth their happiness and mental stability.
Sure, horses get herd bound; I should know, the pony I ride is turned out with a mini and when I take her from the pasture the mini doesn’t stop screaming her head off. But I wouldn’t dare deprive the mini of a herd at all, because that would only fuel her anxiety. Herds actually have a lot of benefit when it comes to manners and behavior, because while they might be inclined to return to the herd, they’ll at least have a social experience with someone who can teach them boundaries. There’s a young gelding at my barn who is nicknamed “the moose” because he acts like one: barging through people, disrespect, etc. and nobody can really stop him because he’s huge. However, while we don’t know what his original turnout situation was, I imagine it wasn’t a herd because the moment he came into the herd of geldings at the barn with a pre-ordained and relatively unchallenged herd leader, his behavior was improving a lot quicker because he was in there with someone who wasn’t afraid to kick back. He tested the boundaries and still does, but he learned real quick not to challenge the horses and people who aren’t afraid of you.
I do disagree with having like 10+ horses in a field together if they’re being taken in and out a lot though, simply because it makes it more dangerous and stressful for the people who are fetching their horse and have to contend with big dominant horses who try to charge out of the gate, etc. but if the horses are mannerly then there’s not an issue.
For the majority of horses, individual turnout is like solitary confinement, and making them spend most of their time alone just isn’t right. Even if they become herd bound (which is easily fixable), I’d rather deprive them of company for the few hours that I’m with them than leave them alone 24/7 but maybe that’s just me.